Årsaken til at man kan gå ned flere kilo over natta på diett

[depex]

Kopierer inn to poster fra lyle sitt forum som ihvertfall jeg syntes var interessante.

Ok, finally stickying this stupid post with some very minor modifications.

It's something I've mentioned over the years, an assertion that my exercise physiology professor had made wrt: fat loss.

Note that under normal conditions, fat cells contain ~90% triglycerides and ~10% other stuff where other stuff includes some water, the cellular machinery that makes all the stuff that fat cells make and a couple of other things that I'm forgetting right now. Basically, fat cells do not normally contain much water.

He told us that, after triglycerides were removed from the cell, that the fat cells refilled with water in the short-term, eventually the body dropped that water and the fat loss 'became evident' (a goofy way for me to try to describe when the fat loss actually shows up on calipers, one of those dumb Tanita scales, or visually).

If nothing else, this gives a plausible mechanism for the non-linear fat loss that is so often seen. Folks will do everything right for weeks with no results. then overnight, something happens and the scale drops a bunch. Many diet newsgroups and forums refer to this as a 'whoosh' which often follows a stall.

A couple of empirical data points in support of this: people who use tanita scales have often reported that it will tell them that their BF has gone up right before a 'whoosh' occurs and a big drop. This suggests something goofy is going on with water balance.

Another is that fat often gets squishy (suggesting a change in what's in there) prior to a drop in skinfolds/ improvement in appearance.

I looked for research on the topic for a decade to no success. I made up my own plausible mechanism having to do with glycerol levels in the fat cell (glycerol is hydrophilic); if fatty acids were being lost at a greater proportion than glycerol, this mght explain how water is attracted into the fat cell. Except that, usually, glycerol and fatty acid are released in about the proportion you'd expect (3:1 FFA:glycerol).

edit: For what very little it's worth, Colgan mentions something similar in OPtimum Sports Nutrition, something about the body 'tracking' glycerol to keep track of fat stores. It's possible that the research on this is just pre-medline. Or he and my teacher just pulled it out of the old ass.

A couple of years back, a paper came out showing an increase in water content of visceral fat with dieting. First semi-direct data I've seen. I don't recall the mechanism being mentioned but I may not have ever read the full paper.

I keep meaning to look into what happens to water balance hormones with dieting, but my laziness is just truly profound.

Edit: Of course, if I suppose if I ever got off my ass and figured out what was causing it, I could try to figure out how to fix it. But, see: profound laziness.... It's probably just a matter of drinking a shitton of water so that your body will quit being weird and holding onto what's in the system.

As a weird addendum: many folks have noticed that a refeed can often trigger a 'whoosh'. Is this somehow affecting water balance (this would make sense given the relationships of carbs and water, carbs tend to pull water into the muscle cells)? Is it that the increase in leptin that accompanies refeeds does something nifty? I have no answers but it's something some have noticed/mentioned, including myself. You'll have someone who dieted hard for a week or two and nothing appears to be happening. Then they'll go 'fuck it' and have a big cheat/meal or short refeed. And wake up 4 lbs lighter with a visual difference.

here ya' go, protocol pulled totally out of my ass on the spot

short full body workout tonite
5 hour refeed, you can start this 1 hour before training.
carbs at 2 g/lb across teh 5 hours
as little water as you can get away with

maybe have a beer at bedtime to get a little more dehydration going

the reason for keeping water low it this: carbs attract water. which is why carbups can make muscles look fuller (pulls water into them) if you do them right or make you look puffy (water spills over under the skin) if you do them wrong. if you drink tons of water with your carbs, the body will use those carbs. if you don't, it has to pull water from somewhere else. most convenient place is teh bloodstream. but that creates a 'draw' from other tissues, in this case fat cells/under the skin

so by loading carbs into muscle without drinking a ton of water you pull water into the muscle out of the bloodstream which pulls water out of the fat celsl into the bloodstream

end result = pumped muscles, good veins, dehydrated fat cells

[Borge Fagerli]

Her er en studie som beskriver fenomenet, 9 ukers lavkalori-diett fulgt av vedlikeholdsnivå. De brukte en variant av bioelektrisk impedansmåling (som i disse elektroniske badevektene og håndholdte målerne) til å evaluere væskeretensjonen i fettcellene, og min erfaring er faktisk også at slike målere viser en økning i fettprosent like før et større vekt/væskedropp kommer. Det må i så fall være det eneste de kan brukes til, de fleste studier viser at de er omtrent verdiløse til å måle reell fettprosent.

Det er sannsynligvis to faktorer involvert her:

- diett og (for mye) kardio gir økte stressnivåer og kortisol, som i sin tur binder mer vann i kroppen
- når fett er mobilisert og forbrent, gjenstår glyserol-gjenparten av triglyseridet i fettcellen og binder vann inni fettcellen.

Det sikreste tipset for å få denne "whoosh" effekten, eller vanndroppet om du vil, er å holde kardiomengden moderat når du går på diett - og til syvende og sist: Tålmodighet. Noe de fleste kunne trengt noen liter av.


Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2003 Jun;27(6):677-83.

Changes in abdominal subcutaneous fat water content with rapid weight loss and long-term weight maintenance in abdominally obese men and women.

Laaksonen DE, Nuutinen J, Lahtinen T, Rissanen A, Niskanen LK.

1Department of Medicine, Kuopio University Hospital, Kuopio, Finland.

Abstract
OBJECTIVE: Insulin resistance decreases blood flow and volume in fat tissue. We hypothesised that fat tissue nutritive blood flow and volume, and thereby water content, would increase during weight loss and weight maintenance in obese persons.

DESIGN: Longitudinal clinical intervention with a 9-week very-low-calorie diet (VLCD) followed by one year of weight maintenance.
SUBJECTS: Obese men (n=13) and women (n=14) with the metabolic syndrome.
MEASUREMENTS: Water content of abdominal subcutaneous fat tissue as estimated by a sensor on the skin surface measuring the dielectric constant at 300 MHz. Anthropometric measures of fatness and fat distribution. Biochemical measures related to insulin resistance.
RESULTS: Subjects lost 14.5+/-3.4% of body weight during the VLCD, and generally sustained this weight loss during weight maintenance. Insulin sensitivity as estimated by an index (qualitative insulin sensitivity check index) increased during the VLCD, and remained increased throughout weight maintenance. The dielectric constant increased from 23.3+/-2.3 to 25.0+/-2.1 (P<0.001) during the VLCD, and further to 27.8+/-1.9 (P<0.001) during weight maintenance, indicating an increase in the water content of subcutaneous fat. The increase in subcutaneous fat water content did not correlate with weight loss and other measures of adiposity during the VLCD, but there was an inverse correlation that strengthened in significance from baseline to 6, 9 and 12 mo (r=-0.32 to -0.64, P=0.079-0.002). Increases in subcutaneous fat water content also correlated with improvements in insulin sensitivity at 6, 9 and 12 months of weight maintenance (r=0.34-0.54, P=0.094-0.006).
CONCLUSIONS: Water content of abdominal subcutaneous adipose tissue increases with weight loss in obese persons with the metabolic syndrome, and may reflect increased subcutaneous fat tissue nutritive blood flow. The increase in water content correlates with the increase in insulin sensitivity, suggesting that weight loss and consequent improved insulin sensitivity could mediate the increase in abdominal subcutaneous fat hydration.

[Siggy1]

Tålmodighet og/eller viljestyrke til å gjennomføre forandring i livsstilen dei har pr i dag.

[Torbjørn]

Dette er intr lesestoff, forklarer mye jeg har lurt på opp igjennom noen dietter. Spesielt må jeg si det har stort utslag å ikke drikke mye vann på oppkarbing. Alltid hyggelig å våkne opp og ha årespreng og se mer rippa ut. Og på den andre siden hvor dårligere man kan se ut om man gjør oppkarbingen feil og drikker masser med væske. Opplevd begge.

For et par år siden hadde jeg to-tre dager under påsken hvor jeg spiste mye drit midt i en diett, lå langt foran "skjema" til sommerformen så jeg ga litt faen, jeg kunne drikke utrolige mengder væske, gikk sjelden på do for å tisse og resultatet ble masse vann mellom huden og musklene. Gikk over etter et par dager på diett og masse toalettbesøk, men ikke gøy når det holdt på!

Ang disse whooshene har jeg de alltid under diett, spesielt mot slutten da jeg sikkert har økte kortisol og stressnivåer.

Men uansett er vel dette er midlertidig effekt som vil normalisere seg når man går over på vedlikeholdnivå og kroppen normaliseres tenker jeg?